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Round trip for a lifetime license for MES is $1.02
Round trip for Free license for MES is $1.54
The free platform is missing a few features. But you can get you feet wet without purchasing a 1k platform.
If you open an account there with $400.00 min. and utilized the free license, you would get the benefit of the Simulator(s). (Please check with NT for the latest offers/policies)
Others can explain the benefits of Sierra etc.
If I am reading IB's fixed rate chart, then their rate for MES is $3.00 round trip. If this is incorrect, someone may be able to clarify.
Both my wife and I are happy with NT.
There is a large community built around NT. They have an app share.
Unfortunately, the price just recently increased from .82cents.
Even though there is a higher premium to be paid, the flexibility for averaging out trades make it easier to make profits. The CME knows this, that's why it costs over double for 10 micros vs. 1 emini contract commissions.
When a person has a strategy that utilizes micros, the higher commission rate doesn't make any difference.
To some it would. To me it doesn't.
I don't care if I pay $200.00 a day in commissions as long as I have made 9 times that amount in profits. If I can keep my commission rate below 10%, it's a great day!
It's just a numbers game.
In the end, the commission percentage of my profit is just a reflection of how well I have traded that day.
I would have considered AMP, but I already have Ninjatrader platform.
I want to make money and I want to make money for Ninjatrader.
Hey Anubis, thanks for the great comment about the gaming mode for TV's. I tried it on my 4k tv, but don't have a game mode.
I've been pretty curious about fees with micros because it seems like they would eat up profits pretty quickly. The micros as 1/10th the cost but the fees are only 1/3 compared to the minis. Do you mind expanding on how fees with micros can be offset or managed?
Greetings! I may not answer your question the way you might need me to, but can endeavor to shed some light on different aspects.
This is a given with a licensed NT platform:
MNQ/MES Round Trip=$1.02
NQ/ES Round Trip-$3.98
Micros cost 2.5 time more to trade.
The question really comes down to: What is the strategy and what is the risk?
You can apply the same strategy using 2 micro contracts that you would use with 2 emini's as you learn. But you will pay 2.5 times the commission rate for the privilege of doing so. When your account grows, you can step up to the emini's.
That is the basic methodology of many many traders. That's great for them.
If you develop a strategy that utilizes micros, who cares that you paid a little more for the privilege of utilizing them?
For instance, I never trade with a predetermined stop and TP. I let the market tell me what is likely and or probable and where I should place those stops. If I pull the trigger with one micro and it gives me 10 points, then I will take it. $20.00-$1.20=$18.80. What's wrong with that? That's about a 6% fee for making that $18.00.
Let's say that I entered a trade with 1 MNQ and it goes against me for 6 points and I believe there is still reason to stay in the position and I firmly believe by my analysis that it will spring back and then I add 1 more. Then as it is moving in my favor and I see a good run, I add 2 more. Without laying out all of the math, let's just say it moves 8 points from my original position and I close. I now get approx. 27 points of gain. 27x 2=$54.00-$4.08=$49.92. Nothing wrong with that.
It's not a common strategy as in 2 contracts with a 10point SL/TP. This allows you flexibility in your approach to movement. As is any strategy out there, many of us average minded traders have to do a lot of practice til we are comfortable with what we are doing. And for me, it took a number of years.
In regards to the commissions, I believe they are dirt cheap. If I can trade really well and make money, I don't care if I give the broker 5% or 10% or 20% of my take. When I was in the building business, I had to invest multiples of $10,000 in tools and equipment just to go to work.
Again, as I said before, the percentage of commissions vs. my Gross for the day gives me an indication if I am trading well or not so well. Where I traded poorly etc. etc.
To me trading is like pouring a concrete slab (which I poured many over the last 40 years). You place the mud, screed it off and then float it. Then...OOh! There's a little dip which need a little more mud. Throw some in and smooth it out.
You have to know when and where to do the smoothing. In trading, maybe that one contract is now in a place where smoothing will make no difference but make things worse. Take the loss before making things worse. If you take the loss, then look to see why you misread your entry. When I have "messed" up, it was due the the fact that I needed to learn something from that trade.
When I eliminate the stupid entries, more often than not, I am left with the good entries thereby decreasing my losses and increasing my wins.
All the above are just thoughts on my approach. They are unique to me as I have spent countless hours endeavoring to figure out the market when in reality, I need to figure out me and how my brain/mind can perceive value in the market place.
Commissions: I don't have a bias against my broker. He needs to be paid for his service. If I am paying too much in fees, that's my fault, then I need to get better.
For instance, if I can make $1000.00 in a day and I pay out $50-$150 in commissions...... So what? My goal is to trade is such a way that my commissions are 8% or less of my gross. That makes me very happy. That commission rate is my investment in my tools and is a cost of doing business.
I hope this does not come across as condescending. But, I do not know of your personal experience and maybe it's just food for thought for you or whoever.
Maybe just something for someone to print out and use for a dart board!:
Wow, thanks for laying that out so well! I think since I've mostly been studying the 1 point scalp my perspective was pretty binary, one point gain or two points lost. Profiting only one point at a time makes it hard to see how you could average your commissions down, but thinking in terms of even 5+ points certainly gives me a different perspective on the commissions.
I still have a lot to learn and my own trading style to find.
You're welcome! If you are trading the MES, you might find "Responsible Day Trading" and "Al Brooks" stimulating. I could not trade like Ms. Duff on Responsible D.T. but there is always something to be gleaned from another trader. Al Brooks brings a lot of value regarding price action and what is possible in just a 5 minute candle. He states that there are an average of 40 trades possible in every N.Y. session.
Of course price action is only one part of this trade. Probabilities, Risk (and where you put it on), Psychology, Money Management, Account size and Volatility are just a few of the other factors involved in this pursuit. Understanding your own talent, your own mind and your own fortitude will keep you reaching for your goal.
For me, it's been a long hard journey. My motto has always been "I'll get this if it kills me". Must be from my German/Norwegian heritage.
This journey reminds me of when I went hunting decades ago. Up the mountain I went through the snow and brush. I thought the top of the mountain was just in sight. Surely the deer will be up there. When I got to the top, I discovered no deer and then another mountain still above. Up I went. Surely, this next hill will be the top. Nope, yet another hill to climb. Eventually, I got up to the top and could move around more freely and scope out the deer. Pretty much the same with trading. Lots of mountains to climb.
That's my story. Of course if you are genius level, you won't have so many mountains to climb. I hope it's that way for you!
Thank you for the suggestions on Responsible DT and Al Brooks. Finding a solid and credible education has been an adventure in and of itself.
I'm currently working my way through Adam H. Grimes free course and then Al Brooks was next on my list.
I have also found "Trading in the Zone" to be very helpful as a new trader. It's given me the foundation to build the correct mindset but probably more importantly it's told me about the mental pitfalls and traps to NOT fall into.
My mission for right now is to keep it simple...basic rules, basic patterns, basic indicators (mostly just sma) and build from there. With such varying strategies, methods, rules, etc. I'm trying to focus on just the few things that everyone seems to agree on before I start injecting my own opinion and hypotheses.
Thank you again and have a great weekend yourself!
I will check out A. Grimes. New one to me. Of course Mark Douglas is fantastic. Morad at Futures71 too.
On early Sat. morning, I like watching historical videos of anyone who is doing a live trade using NT8. I learn as much from what I believe they are doing wrong (in my view) as from what they are doing right.
In regards to indicators, I have used a hundred different one. Oh man, the list! I finally ended up with one MA and one simple oscillator to help view weakness, strength and divergence. Pretty simple chart.