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Hah! Good stuff. A brief digression: it's easy to get too cerebral in trading. Learning is critical, but when a workshop is dedicated to MP (or most anything) and takes days, it's really too much. We need time to learn a chunk, absorb it, put it to work, and then go to the next piece. Someone who doesn't know what a TPO represents is going to have too much info after the first hour or two of info on MP. It has to all be learned though, and then reduced/distilled to the principles, and that just takes time and practice. Digression over.
SC = Sierra Chart. The DOM is really phenomenal; I haven't tried Jigsaw or Bookmap, but SC's ladders are very similar to those.
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I use both. In a nutshell, Jigsaw is a DOM based platform with an optional heatmap, Bookmap is the opposite. So you can't really say that one is better than the other, it completely depends on how you like to source your information. If heatmap, then Bookmap. If DOM, then Jigsaw.
The following 3 users say Thank You to Dianoia for this post:
OK, but that kind of clear action happens very rarely
I stare at bookmap every day for a few months now
Unfortunately I found this kind of scenario absolutely random. Sometimes price hit area of high liquidity and bounce. Other time it hits it and trades through. Other times it reverses just before reaching the level of high liquidity. Sometimes it hits more than one levels of high liquidity and continue. Complete randomness
Same for icebergs. I've seen veeeeery large icebergs and the price went through. Sometimes it continues. Sometimes it reverses after a few ticks. Sometimes it bounces from iceberg and never returns. Random outcome, random direction after iceberg hits
One thing I can confirm that generally levels of high liquidity are like a magnet. But those magnets are both on the bid side and on the ask size. Sooner or later price will hit them, but again it seems do be done in semi-random order
After months of watching this stuff I'm only getting more into conclusion that at the end of the day only price action matters
Do we have some heatmap users that found their edge only by looking into heatmap? Please correct me if my above statements are wrong
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Broker: AMP, ADMIS, Gain, Charles Schwab. Data: CQG, Open-eCry
Trading: Emini ES
Posts: 41 since Jun 2013
Thanks Given: 13
Thanks Received: 25
I had the same question a few years ago & felt the same apprehesion about which to choose- I liked features about both; however, paying to have both just wasn't wise & not really feasible in my case, either. I found that Bookmap seemed to be useful if someone wants to zoom in to a granular level, & identify HFT's a little more easily, but Peter's Jigsaw Tools provided multiple ways to look at order flow (and all you need is one which works for you), & Auction Vista seems *somewhat* less graphicly smooth than Bookmap, but is absolutely more than adequate for that kind of visualization.
Since you now know that basically Jigsaw does what Bookmap does, there's some other very important considerations:
#1) Peter's education that comes with the Tools. Bookmap used to do daily 1 hr. webinars when I tried it for a month, but it seemed to be mostly on how to 'read the dots' & navigate the software. Peter's very generous with his knowledge & is a trader himself, with clear experience, & his training is much more comprehensive as to understanding what is happening, as well has how to understand the information the tools provide. The software is continually updated, & there have been cool new features since I've owned it. There is also a chatroom that Peter himself participates in daily, with traders of all levels of experience, many who are very helpful if you have an immediate problem or question (although there is a support ticket system).
#2) I don't remember what Bookmap cost at the time (a few years ago), but Peter's 'one & done' purchase option was & likely is 'best value'. For me, like many traders, I was underfunded for this journey to become a trader, & this was one of the best decisions I have made along the way. The downside is, to trade live through the Tools, there is an annual subscription. I somehow did not understand that when I bought it. I do not know how Bookmap works in this regard.
#3) Journalytix is part of the deal, & a few years ago I purchased Edgewonk to journal. However, I found it's too difficult to remember or stop & enter all the details of a trade using Edgewonk (it seems more suited to those who do not trade very frequently during the day, or are more positional or swing traders -I will use it someday I am sure). Journalytix is really great- it has a speech to text feature, prompts you to journal after each trade (if you want it to), & comprehensive analytics. Journaling is a key tool in development & performance enhancement.
#4) JS has a real-time news & economic calendar feature (if your broker data feed supports it) & that's very helpful. I don't recall that Bookmap did, but I might be wrong.
#5) Jigsaw has real-time alerts (icebergs, block trades, bearish/bullish divergence) that can really help to understand what's going on at a given price & moment in time, as well as help you either stay in a trade, or get out.
**There are some people on here who seem to use both platforms. You are likely going to need some kind of charting platform as well. Realize that you need logins for each platform, & we (as I understand it) are now limited to two logins per data feed, essentially, or the CME will deem you to be a 'professional', which jacks up your costs, unsustainably for most, especially those just starting out. So you need to check with your broker as to how many logins/platforms you can actually use, without getting an additional broker and/or data feed. Almost no retail trader needs both - it's more of a luxury for those who want the sleek "heatmap" of Bookmap & can afford it.
If I was teaching someone the ropes, & they wanted order flow tools, Jigsaw would be the one.
Hope that helps.
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It is not always about what a market does but what it doesn’t do. If the market moves into liquidity are those resting limit orders turning into market orders? Is liquidity being pulled, absorbed, etc.? I actually came across a bunch of video’s by some kid ( a kid to me anyway) on YouTube the other week that does a pretty good job of explaining these things. Look up “Bit Coin Challenge” and give it a look. As the name implies he concentrates on bitcoin, but from the limited amount of video that I have seen gives a fairly cogent explanation of how this form of analysis works and might be helpful.
As far as your primary question is concerned I can only say that Bookmap in my opinion delivers on what it is designed to do. I have never tested Jigsaw. In the past whenever I had such a question I would test both programs side by side. After a period of time I would find myself gravitating to one over the other. That was the winner.
Best of luck in your endeavors.
The following 3 users say Thank You to ForJL for this post:
If you're DOM scalper then you have only 2 choices TT or Jigsaw, if you're not DOM scalper then anything than those 2 is better.
However sophisticated and overblown Bookmap is it does not show DOM dynamics.
With Bookmap you see when market tanked, with Jigsaw you can see when market is tanking, so you are 1 step ahead.
To my humble opinion mixing DOM analysis with Heatmap is overkill, and DOM with charting, where you can switch to TPO's, Dailies, Weeklies, Minutes in instant, mark levels, draw profiles etc. is just perfect combination. So Bookmap is neither good at DOM neither good at charting.
Jigsaw with Ninja or Motive is very common combination.
The following user says Thank You to tandem for this post:
I agree with Tandem that TT and JS have the two best DOM solutions. But I respectfully disagree with his/her view that "With Bookmap you see when market tanked, with Jigsaw you can see when market is tanking, so you are 1 step ahead.". I think you actually extract more information from Bookmap than Jigsaw (I use them both daily and have been for a long time). This is also a matter of trading style. How do you make money and what type of information will help you in this process? The only sensible way of figuring out if a tool works for you (or not) is to actually try it out.
The following user says Thank You to Dianoia for this post:
I’ve been using Bookmap for strategy development for years. It goes way beyond just the heat map. It uses open source code that is incredibly user-friendly, and they happily work with you to customize it. Highly recommend.
Jim
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