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No problem, this issue applied to e.g. OneUp evaluation program (using Rithmic) as well...but it seems that this problem has been fixed now.
"If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." - Jim Rohn
Well, Rithmic is not responding so the e2t guys are helping me out. Our preliminary findings are shocking. They deduce from the log files (what they see on their end) that I clicked 'reverse position' on DOM? Which is impossible since I minimize trade platform after entry, and was busy chatting on Stocktwits till I get notification window yesterday.
Anyway I told them to look at the bracket orders. The log files show which orders are linked. So my OCO bracket order for ES 3137 long was closed 13.21 PM ET at ES 3142.50 but somehow the 'reverse' orders (phantom order short 2 MES from 3137.75, no bracket order types) were opened 13.11 PM ET? How does one get long 1 MES 3137 and 2 short MES 3137.75 on MESU0 at same time from 13.11 PM ET to 13.21 PM ET I'd never know.
I really wish Rithmic would get back to us. This problem has never happened before, but the last update was problematic for me (problems logging in, settings missing for one though I always click save settings)
ps: Rithmic got back to me. PMed you their reply. Basically, they want e2t to troubleshoot and copy them?
Hi! We are not looking at logs, we are showing you the same information that you can see in R Trader Pro as well: just need to add the "originator window" column in your order history window. It shows that you used the 'reverse position' button to place the orders. I am not sure there is a lot more Rithmic could say about the issue-the trading platform displays this information as it is in the actual logs.
Earn2Trade www.earn2trade.com Become a Professional Trader. Decisions That Can Change Your Life Forever.
Hi. that is what I find weird.
If reverse was really clicked, why the orders didnt come with the bracket orders?
I tested it on SIM, when you click reverse it will come and with the default lot (not double)
2nd, how could I have reversed the long into sells at 3137.75 and also continue to be long 3137?
Shouldn't the reverse into sell have offset the 1 long position from 3137?
I am having the same problem. Using RTrader, I had oco order, the stop was hit, then it showed I had another open position.
I had a same problem using Sierra Chart the last time. So, after that experience I decided to go with RTrader pro for the new gauntlet. Same thing happened.
Basically, on the order book of RTrader, it shows 1 position, but the p&l section value is fixed, even though the price keep changing. You are NOT able to "close" that open position even if you pressed cancel all & flatten. Trying to exit the platform will also prompt you telling you had an open position. However, when you exit and login again, the position is no longer there.
Previously with Sierra Chart it was worse, It added position when I pressed the cancel all and flatten button. Basically Sierra Chart and rithmic.... just doesn't work (that's why I believe they will only be available till end of he year, I think).
And yes, I also DIDN'T click the reverse position.
OMG you also had the same problem?
Pls update if they reply to you on the cause of the problem.
ps: Yes I had that problem too. I cannot close that 'open position' if I pressed cancel all & flatten. Only way to do it is to open sell or buy limits to offset the phantom order, then cancel the bracket (cos by default mine is all bracket orders) which appears under working order. Which is what I did.
I did not try exiting when that problem happened, so idk if it works. But although the position is not there anyone when you restart platform, what happens to the account balance? (for me the account balance keeps changing when those phantom orders appeared, was it same for you?) And yes, Sierra had that problem too which is why I stopped using it... very strange.
Without having any specific knowledge of the situation, my guess is that there is some issue with Rithmic's simulation software, which is what is being used on their simulation server to imitate actual market trades for these trade evaluation companies.
I don't think that Rithmic would be having these issues in a live trading environment, especially the one about being both long and short in the same instrument and the same account. I don't know how it would work with the exchange, but it isn't supposed to happen, and I doubt their customers would sit still for it with live trades and live money being involved.
But some sort of occasionally-happening bug in the sim environment could be another matter. It will be interesting to see if anyone else has this issue (already two reported here), and if there are any reports in live trading (wihch I doubt we'll see, but anything can happen.)
I don't recall seeing a lot of complaints about Rithmic here, but I know that Sierra Chart has announced, in something of a huff, that they will not be helping anyone track down Rithmic trade issues any more, and that they will not continue to support Rithmic indefinitely. I've not kept up with the current state of things with them, but last I knew, they were very unhappy and were vocal about it.
Of course, Sierra tends to be very vocal about many things, but they are excellent coders for all that their tempers tend to be short, and I have assumed their issues have some basis.
It's unfortunate that this issue doesn't look like it's being solved by the different support staffs. Unfortunately, when different companies are involved, things may be hard to track down, and there is always the simple possibility of user error. With two user reports, it may be less likely, though.
I hope you get this straightened out. If it's just in the evaluation it is not really that serious, although it may have some consequences. I hope that my guess that it is likely a sim issue is correct, and it would be reassuring to know what it actually is.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
@bobwest, thanks for sharing your perspective here - I really appreciate it. So it seems the likely problem is in the SIM software? In that case, who would be the right person to direct queries to, in your opinion?
1. e2t live help advised me to approach Rithmic but after waiting for 1 day, Rithmic told me it is e2t job to look into these issues? Until now, it is unsolved... if it is SIM problem, shouldn't it be Rithmic job actually?
2. I had to post it here, since the initial response (from Francis of e2t) was that I somehow must have 'clicked reverse' unknowingly on the DOM. It still does not explain how I could be both long and short at the same time for MESU0 from 13.11 PM ET to 13.21 PM ET on 23 June. I needed more eyes to help me check I was not making a mistake...
Since I was unable to edit my earlier post to include the screenshot I'll add it here instead so people can understand what I mean. All from same ID, same IP I am told which is even more weird.
3. If anyone else has similar issue, they would know they are not alone and could also add to the thread.
EDIT:
The phantom orders actually caused me to have losses. When the 1 long from 3137 closed in profit 3142.50 I thought I would see higher balance, but instead I saw bigger -ve since it said I was stuck in 2 shorts from 3137.75 from 10 minutes before the 1 long hit TP. Same thing happened in AM but reverse direction. How?
User hitting 'reverse button' is not a satisfactory explanation for why someone can be holding both long and short positions in MESU0 at the same time. Also, rithmic's Eric unwillingness to look into the matter and pushing it to e2t makes me wonder what is going on.
Seems to me that you are e2t's customer. It is them you are paying for a service and if there is a technical problem you are having they help you fix it.
If it is a problem particular to you they help you sort it out. If for example it is a bigger issue with Rithmic data or RTrader then that is for them to sort out through their business relationship with Rithmic. If it is a problem with Sierra it is for them to sort out with Sierra.
If you buy or hire a car and have a problem with it you go back to the dealer or rental company and as their customer they sort it out for you. You wouldn't expect them to tell you to contact the BMW or Mercedes Manufacturing company and work it out yourself.
(and I appreciate what Bob is saying about it being less serious as it would probably be a sim issue during evaluation and not live, but you are paying for a sim evaluation test and it should work to a reasonable expectation, not to mention the fact that it makes it a lot harder to pass).
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
I think you pretty much have to go through Earn2Trade. I do think it is likely that there is an issue with Rithmic. Unless, of course, it is user error by you, which seems to be an answer you have been offered. I can't say that I blame them for that answer, because user error lets everyone off the hook, and of course it is very often right.
I don't see how "user error -- you clicked on Reverse" explains the simultaneous long and short positions, though, which have to be a matter of how your entries were processed. Since the Rithmic simulator is what is doing the processing, well, I think that is probably where the explanation is. But I don't see that you really have the connection to Rithmic to pursue it with them directly.
It appears that @Earn2Trade believes that you definitely used the Reverse button, and that this caused everything else. I do not know if they have explained how you hitting Reverse caused you to have both a long and a short position in the same instrument, at the same time, in the same account. Also, @mykee has chimed in above with a similar situation, that also had an unexplained position.
However, I don't want to try to interpret the data or add to the discussion at this point, because I am not in a position to research anything. Remember that I am just thinking about what seems to make sense, given what you have written, not saying that I know anything directly about the situation, because I am not on the ground and don't have access to the data, nor even experience with the RTrader software. So my opinion is just that, my opinion.
I'm sorry to say it, but not all support issues are resolved to the user's satisfaction. Did this actually cause you to have a loss in the evaluation? If so, then it is important for them to find out what did happen, hopefully to your satisfaction. If they are unable to, then you have to assess how important a matter it is for you going forward.
I agree that if other examples of this same issue are surfaced, then everyone will have more to go on.
Bob.
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Edit: I see that @matthew28 chimed in already, saying about the same thing, much more briefly, while I was going on and on about it. Which definitely happens.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote