Hi guys,
What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all?
For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market?
So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

nikodine 

Hi guys, What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all? For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market? So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

A trader I know who used to trade CL and now trades mainly equity indexes does not use DOM/order flow at all and is extremely consistent.

I know traders that only use price action and no DOM / depth at all. They say there is too much spoofing and iceberg orders for that information to be beneficial. If i remember correctly from the reading i have done, John Carter doesn't use any market depth in his trading and he's quite successful.


All the best,

Freebird

Also have in mind what type of trading you perform is critical.
dom / orderflow is a requirement for scalpers and not so much for other type of traders..what do you think?

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Or in your example you meant that 2 scalpers going for 3 ticks on the ES . The first one successful with orderflow and the other one successful only chart trading?

I personally use both. As a part of my morning/pre-market routing, I do use charts along with trend lines and fibonacci retracement in order to establish support and resistance levels, however, I do not use chart for entries and exits. For trade entries I use DOM/DOME in order to enter trades when there are large volume trades at bid and/or ask, as I am trying to capture the momentum upwards or downwards for 6+ ticks per trade.

This greatly depends on your style of trading and DOM only trading may not be for one person while being extremely profitable for another person. Really depends on your end goal.

--bofh

Your right that it is madness to try to read the DOM in fast markets. Programmers will have a much better go at this than discretionary traders for the obvious reasons.

nikodine 

Hi guys, What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all? For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market? So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

Very possible but requires a lot of patience and screen time. Also helps if you have incredibly low commissions, so trading EUREX helps immensely since their commissions are a lot cheaper. I'd also say you have to be very comfortable with your method as it's not just set a 3 tick stop loss and hope for winner, you have to constantly manage your trades.

nikodine 

Hi guys, What do you think, is it possible consistency to make profit without using DOM and order flow at all? For example, how exactly is useful the information from the DOM in trading volatile markets such a currency futures or indexes? Isn't a madness to try reading the ladders in such a fast market? So, is not a right way to think that volatile market (with a lot of swings) is better to trade of charts (even the information is from the past), and markets such a 10, 30-US notes to be traded with DOM stuff?

I think the techniques are different in faster more volatile markets. For me, I mostly watch the prints in fast markets, the intensity of sweeps, larger prints hitting and where. I have also found that having my watchlist on a quote board where I can see the rate of change on the market im selling, positive and negative correlations. Sometimes it is easy to make trades in fast markets from that information. If you try to do how the Jigsaw vids and No BS style it is far more difficult.

I think these day's it is very difficult to trade the ladder, definitely in fast moving markets.
ES for example might be better if you want to trade that way.

Also, you will need a very good DOM + other in depth information to be able to pull it of, something like Jigsaw for example.

However i agree that it will become harder and harder to do so, the algo's are making it much much harder these day's!





Ps; For everyone reading this: A like/thanks to my original post in the link below would be very much appreciated since i can win a price with it!

Battlestations: Show us your trading desks! I went from this: To this: And i have never been more profitable! Once i started trading i thought the more information i could see the better a trader i would become. There were some other setups in the time in between then and now and it took some …