Darvish 

$170 for one month subscription?! Data feed from ninja trader is $12 a month, micro contracts are one dollar, get out of that playpen and just engage in the real market.

A bit of a short sighted reply. You cannot trade micros with $1, this comment shows that you know nothing about margin, so perhaps stop dishing out bad advice? And jumping straight into the live markets is a good way to lose your life savings in a few days if you're unprepared.

Prop firms offer a much lower cost entry into trading. They're an intermediate step between paper trading and live trading. Your losses are capped at the subscription costs.

VirtualMark 

I think your post answers itself. They have no interest in funding profitable traders, they are only interested in making as much money as possible. On there site it literally says "no refunds for any reason whatsoever". Here in the UK that is literally against consumer law, but as they aren't based here I doubt there's much that can be done. The averaging into trades one annoys me. It absolutely makes sense to get a better position if you're in a trading range. Why not buy again at the bottom if your first entry wasn't the best?

I don't think my post answers itself, and that's why I tagged them and asked them. Let's give them the opportunity to respond.

VirtualMark 

A bit of a short sighted reply. You cannot trade micros with $1, this comment shows that you know nothing about margin, so perhaps stop dishing out bad advice? And jumping straight into the live markets is a good way to lose your life savings in a few days if you're unprepared. Prop firms offer a much lower cost entry into trading. They're an intermediate step between paper trading and live trading. Your losses are capped at the subscription costs.

But...but...its fake! It's all false. Its all simulation, Isn't it?

josh 

I don't think my post answers itself, and that's why I tagged them and asked them. Let's give them the opportunity to respond.

Why do you think they'll respond here? Have you tried asking them on their support page?

And by answering itself, I meant at the bottom where you list your concerns. You seem to have already drawn conclusions. Yes, their rules do appear to be intentionally vague, and seem to allow them to deny a payout for pretty much any reason.

VirtualMark 

Why do you think they'll respond here? Have you tried asking them on their support page? And by answering itself, I meant at the bottom where you list your concerns. You seem to have already drawn conclusions. Yes, their rules do appear to be intentionally vague, and seem to allow them to deny a payout for pretty much any reason.

Those are concerns, not conclusions. I think a community visible forum like this is the perfect opportunity for a more detailed reply, versus a single email with a lot of questions to their support, which I would not expect to get answered.

The back-and-forth noise does not help. Please, give them an opportunity to respond.

Darvish 

But...but...its fake! It's all false. Its all simulation, Isn't it?

Yeah it is simulation, but it's pretty much the same as live trading and they supposedly pay you based on your results. And if you can go from $0 to $10k in sim, making consistent profits each day, then I'd say you're ready for live.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't trust them, and need more information and proof of payouts for me to take the plunge. Way too many bad reviews on trustpilot, and when you check Apex's profile you will see they push to have negative reviews deleted, and also ban people who leave negative reviews. Not a trustworthy way to act in my opinion.

And in my experience, they are very cagey with their replies to any questions regarding their payout policy.

VirtualMark 

Yeah it is simulation, but it's pretty much the same as live trading and they supposedly pay you based on your results. And if you can go from $0 to $10k in sim, making consistent profits each day, then I'd say you're ready for live. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't trust them, and need more information and proof of payouts for me to take the plunge. Way too many bad reviews on trustpilot, and when you check Apex's profile you will see they push to have negative reviews deleted, and also ban people who leave negative reviews. Not a trustworthy way to act in my opinion. And in my experience, they are very cagey with their replies to any questions regarding their payout policy.

I just feel that people can trade on simulation for free with many free platforms instead of the perpetual merry-go-round of these firms, not to mention that trading is about alot of emotional management, and especially during the first few years. The unconscious and subconcious mind knows that you'll just get a new account if you blow up this one and therefore people fail to develop the emotional stamina to manage fear, hope, greed and the emotional associations.

There's more that I can say but, that's the gist of it.

Darvish 

I just feel that people can trade on simulation for free with many free platforms instead of the perpetual merry-go-round of these firms, not to mention that trading is about alot of emotional management, and especially during the first few years. The unconscious and subconcious mind knows that you'll just get a new account if you blow up this one and therefore people fail to develop the emotional stamina to manage fear, hope, greed and the emotional associations. There's more that I can say but, that's the gist of it.

Yeah that's a very good point. There's always that "I'll just buy another account" at the back of your mind.

What I don't like is the artificial rules. Daily loss limits, consistency nonsense, trailing drawdown etc. It's all designed with one goal in mind - to make you blow your account and give them more money.

If I had my own account and had a bad day I'd lose money. But with a prop firm, a bad day could mean losing the account. And a firm like Apex, you can lose the account without ever having a losing day, due to their trailing drawdown.

josh 

Those are concerns, not conclusions. I think a community visible forum like this is the perfect opportunity for a more detailed reply, versus a single email with a lot of questions to their support, which I would not expect to get answered. The back-and-forth noise does not help. Please, give them an opportunity to respond.

Back and forth noise? It's called a discussion. If you don't like it, why are you here?

esmini 

In my professional demeanor, I embody humility and a reserved nature, while also valuing empirical evidence. The first attachment is from Rtrader. Clearly, you can see that I was trading a mini contract not micro, the second is a direct reply from Mr. Martin, "implying" that flipping is also a time based mechanism, odd isn't it? So you can be in a trade that you don't like, like I was, it paused. I got out. I was denied for flipping. Maybe I just won too many times? Its bad business.

But what were your other days like? Did you have a huge winning day, then a series of tiny days?