Need a bit of help putting pieces together :)

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Hi Guys, hope this is the right place to get some beginner help

I am just starting out with with futures trading and i am trying to put together all of the pieces i need to get started.

I bought the basic course of no BS day trading ( John Grady ) and as he suggested i think for the next couple of months i should simply stare at the DOM until those numbers start to makes sense to me.

I agree with the logic, but i don't really understand what pieces i need to put together to do this, that's why i'm here

I have watched few videos of dom comparisons and i would like to start out with jigsaw.
Looking at the options on their website i understand that it can be done in 2 ways.

1 - Buying jigsaw standlone + pay for a thing called datafeed to make sure i am getting correct numbers + in the end i will need a broker.

2 - Find a broker, such as Ninja or Tradovate that provide jigsaw as a supported tird party extension.

First off, is my understandig correct so far ?

Looking at the Tradovate website they provide a 14 days demo account, and in my understanding jigsaw is included, so this seem to me a quite cheap option.

They also say that once the demo is expired if i want to continue demoing i need to buy a data fee subscription

their website report a page that i am not currently allowed to post, but basically there are 2 subscriptions, a 4 $ and a 16 $ for the Market Depth Level 2 Data

I believe i need the 16 $ one.

So in a nutshell, with tradovate i could stare at the dom and place some demo trades as long as i need by paying 16 $ a month.

Am i getting this correctly ? If not please feel free to correct me

Compared to buying jigsaw standalone this seems a lot cheaper to me, but in case you guys are aware of something even cheaper, please feel free to let me know

As you noticed from the questions this is very ground scratch, so thanks in advance for your help.

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Guybrush1

Hi Guys, hope this is the right place to get some beginner help

I am just starting out with with futures trading and i am trying to put together all of the pieces i need to get started.

I bought the basic course of no BS day trading ( John Grady ) and as he suggested i think for the next couple of months i should simply stare at the DOM until those numbers start to makes sense to me.

I agree with the logic, but i don't really understand what pieces i need to put together to do this, that's why i'm here

I have watched few videos of dom comparisons and i would like to start out with jigsaw.
Looking at the options on their website i understand that it can be done in 2 ways.

1 - Buying jigsaw standlone + pay for a thing called datafeed to make sure i am getting correct numbers + in the end i will need a broker.

2 - Find a broker, such as Ninja or Tradovate that provide jigsaw as a supported tird party extension.

First off, is my understandig correct so far ?

Looking at the Tradovate website they provide a 14 days demo account, and in my understanding jigsaw is included, so this seem to me a quite cheap option.

They also say that once the demo is expired if i want to continue demoing i need to buy a data fee subscription

their website report a page that i am not currently allowed to post, but basically there are 2 subscriptions, a 4 $ and a 16 $ for the Market Depth Level 2 Data

I believe i need the 16 $ one.

So in a nutshell, with tradovate i could stare at the dom and place some demo trades as long as i need by paying 16 $ a month.

Am i getting this correctly ? If not please feel free to correct me

Compared to buying jigsaw standalone this seems a lot cheaper to me, but in case you guys are aware of something even cheaper, please feel free to let me know

As you noticed from the questions this is very ground scratch, so thanks in advance for your help.

Check who owns tradovate 😉

The web solution from ninja trader is the same as for ninjatrader.

ANY kind of study is good but just staring at the DOM with no context is ehm not giving you a lot.

Maybe type
Trade orderflow Dom in YouTube will kill a few weeks of watching, trying out, watch again, make notes (more notes), demo trading/ paper trading more...eternal cirkel of getting experience.

Good luck

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Guybrush1

Hi Guys, hope this is the right place to get some beginner help

I am just starting out with with futures trading and i am trying to put together all of the pieces i need to get started.

I bought the basic course of no BS day trading ( John Grady ) and as he suggested i think for the next couple of months i should simply stare at the DOM until those numbers start to makes sense to me.

Heard someone say the other day the way we futures trade today has changed from the way futures were traded years ago. Is DOM trading a much used technic these days?

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I am a DOM watcher. I look for how the orders react to new highs and new lows of the day. For example, today the price of the ES was moving higher this afternoon and every time the market hit a new daily high the stop orders and momentum traders would get triggered pushing the price higher by 3-6 ticks. Once the momentum to the upside stopped the price would fade and the longs would try to get out before the market disappears beneath them which was good for a 7 point down move. Episodes like this happen all day long and it takes time to recognize them. Good luck on your journey.

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blackgrey45

I am a DOM watcher. I look for how the orders react to new highs and new lows of the day. For example, today the price of the ES was moving higher this afternoon and every time the market hit a new daily high the stop orders and momentum traders would get triggered pushing the price higher by 3-6 ticks. Once the momentum to the upside stopped the price would fade and the longs would try to get out before the market disappears beneath them which was good for a 7 point down move. Episodes like this happen all day long and it takes time to recognize them. Good luck on your journey.

Just out of curiosity... are you profitable by only looking for how the orders react to new highs and lows (using the DOM)?

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Hi - What are you intending to trade? John trades treasuries exclusively (maybe ES occasionally). I've taken his courses and he's very good. You really learn a lot about those markets.
Jigsaw is great for bonds, but limited for ES and especially NQ. The prices move too fast and jump ticks - very hard to follow the transactions.
You're better off using Ninja's volumetric bars and cumulative delta for those markets although you need a live account to access the order flow tools. Ninja's DOM is really useless. It's just a basic ladder.
kissorderflow.com also offers order flow tools. I haven't used them but they look okay just looking at their website.

If you're just starting out trading futures, you have a long, long way to go to learn the ins and outs of these markets. You need a fairly strong background in analysis and backtesting because you need to come up with your own strategy.

I can't recommend any "educators" - most of them are charlatans. I think Jigsaw offers courses as well. You might benefit from their stuff. But trading the jigsaw DOM effectively can take a couple years to really accomplish.

You might also want to take a strategy development course from Kevin Davey. You'll learn a lot about the markets and how they work. I don't think he uses order flow but you can always incorporate that into your trading once
you have a foundation.

Please don't fall prey to the crap that's out there. Before you buy ANYTHING, make a post over on the vendor forum about the company. Someone is bound to know something about it. So many traders get robbed blind by
the scammers out there.

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Nihilist

Just out of curiosity... are you profitable by only looking for how the orders react to new highs and lows (using the DOM)?

I am not profitable. Thanks for asking.

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phantomtrader

Hi - What are you intending to trade? John trades treasuries exclusively (maybe ES occasionally). I've taken his courses and he's very good. You really learn a lot about those markets.
Jigsaw is great for bonds, but limited for ES and especially NQ. The prices move too fast and jump ticks - very hard to follow the transactions.
You're better off using Ninja's volumetric bars and cumulative delta for those markets although you need a live account to access the order flow tools. Ninja's DOM is really useless. It's just a basic ladder.
kissorderflow.com also offers order flow tools. I haven't used them but they look okay just looking at their website.

If you're just starting out trading futures, you have a long, long way to go to learn the ins and outs of these markets. You need a fairly strong background in analysis and backtesting because you need to come up with your own strategy.

I can't recommend any "educators" - most of them are charlatans. I think Jigsaw offers courses as well. You might benefit from their stuff. But trading the jigsaw DOM effectively can take a couple years to really accomplish.

You might also want to take a strategy development course from Kevin Davey. You'll learn a lot about the markets and how they work. I don't think he uses order flow but you can always incorporate that into your trading once
you have a foundation.

Please don't fall prey to the crap that's out there. Before you buy ANYTHING, make a post over on the vendor forum about the company. Someone is bound to know something about it. So many traders get robbed blind by
the scammers out there.

Yes i noticed, there are a lot of charlatans out there. i would like to go for the us treasuries for a start. They seems less hectic compared to other products so i think will be a good starting point to train my eyes and understand what i see.