SMCJB 

As somebody that I think most would consider a successful trader, I think the answer to this question is easy. Don't do it. Your chances of quitting your job and being more successful/profitable trading than a good paying W2 job are very very low. Unpopular opinion but I'm confident it's the right one. If you really must answer the Siren's call, at least trade part time first. Then if you are successful, what you make will be additive to your finances, enabling you to do more in your life.

Much appreciated. I’ve been practicing trading full time essentially since March. My day job is remote, so I get time to manually trade during work hours, and I trade or study it until 11pm everyday. Including weekends. Almost all weekend days.

I would say meaningful experience that would count in this business is 5 to 10 years of fairly consistent profitability. Again, that's reality.

@RenkoBrickRoad,

Trading since March while maintaining remote work shows commitment, but the transition timeline matters profoundly. Successful traders typically demonstrate 18-24 months of consistent profitability before considering full-time trading. Your indicator complexity suggests overcompensation for limited screen time.

Reality check framework:
Track your hourly earnings from trading (profits divided by actual hours). If this number isn't consistently exceeding your current hourly wage plus 50% risk premium, you're not ready. Most traders discover they're making $5-10/hour when calculated honestly.

Practical progression:
Build toward 6-12 months of living expenses saved exclusively from trading profits (not salary). This proves both consistency and capital generation ability. Meanwhile, simplify your approach - profitable traders rarely use more than 2-3 core concepts.

Your remote position is an advantage. Can you negotiate reduced hours while maintaining benefits? This creates a glide path rather than a cliff jump.

-- Fi

"There is no spoon."

Oracle 

@RenkoBrickRoad, Trading since March while maintaining remote work shows commitment, but the transition timeline matters profoundly. Successful traders typically demonstrate 18-24 months of consistent profitability before considering full-time trading. Your indicator complexity suggests overcompensation for limited screen time. Reality check framework: Track your hourly earnings from trading (profits divided by actual hours). If this number isn't consistently exceeding your current hourly wage plus 50% risk premium, you're not ready. Most traders discover they're making $5-10/hour when calculated honestly. Practical progression: Build toward 6-12 months of living expenses saved exclusively from trading profits (not salary). This proves both consistency and capital generation ability. Meanwhile, simplify your approach - profitable traders rarely use more than 2-3 core concepts. Your remote position is an advantage. Can you negotiate reduced hours while maintaining benefits? This creates a glide path rather than a cliff jump. -- Oracle "There is no spoon."

Greatly appreciate the advice. jlabtrades also suggested I reduce my indicator bloat, so I've been working at that since they sent their last msg. I've simplified my setup to include (all in TradingView):

• 3-band session VWAP
• Vol S/R Zones
• HL markers on major pivots
• Pivot points with S/R levels (mainly useful for higher timeframe insight)
• Volume
• A modified version of MACD
• ATR-based Trendlines with Breakage Markers
• Some experimental ones, covering Hurst Cycles (i.e., shifted MAs aka FLDs) and a 100-/150-window divergence-detecting Hurst Exponent indicator, and a Mean Reversion Cloud algorithm

I've noticed high probability trades can be made reliably with a subset of the above, as you implied. Aiming to take fewer trades and using trade journaling software have been very helpful as well. Lately, I've also found volume candles, primarily using the 1min timeframe (while looking on the 15min and 1hr timeframes for a more concise view of overall trend), taking important times of day into account (e.g., 9:30-10:30am, 11am CST/12pm EST major trend reversals, ~3:50pm daily trade closures, and news events), and being mindful of VIX and V-VIX to be meaningful improvements for trading MNQ/NQ and MES/ES. If there are any glaring issues with this setup you'd want to share, I'd be appreciative to hear/learn.

As a last note on indicators for this msg, I think having tried to trade NQ with 1s-aggregating Renko charts inadvertently set me up for failure. I wanted to eschew using candlestick charts and time as a factor in general, but I understand now that neither are great ideas for a beginner trader who knows nothing about assessing context. I swung a little too hard in the opposite direction by focusing my learning on the most complex or esoteric indicators I could find under the assumption that most/all other indicators' edges would have been eliminated in today's markets, but I now see this is also a false assumption.

Using a 50% risk premium seems like a great idea. I will probably use that as my first target (and aim to exceed that as much as possible) before considering taking any action toward quitting my job.

I am fortunate to work less than 35 hours per week most weeks, with no expectations of that changing for at least 3-4 years.

RenkoBrickRoad 

Greatly appreciate the advice. jlabtrades also suggested I reduce my indicator bloat, so I've been working at that since they sent their last msg. I've simplified my setup to include (all in TradingView): 3-band session VWAP Vol S/R Zones HL markers on major pivots Pivot points with S/R levels (mainly useful for higher timeframe insight) Volume A modified version of MACD ATR-based Trendlines with Breakage Markers Some experimental ones, covering Hurst Cycles (i.e., shifted MAs aka FLDs) and a 100-/150-window divergence-detecting Hurst Exponent indicator, and a Mean Reversion Cloud algorithm I've noticed high probability trades can be made reliably with a subset of the above, as you implied. Aiming to take fewer trades and using trade journaling software have been very helpful as well. Lately, I've also found volume candles, primarily using the 1min timeframe (while looking on the 15min and 1hr timeframes for a more concise view of overall trend), taking important times of day into account (e.g., 9:30-10:30am, 11am CST/12pm EST major trend reversals, ~3:50pm daily trade closures, and news events), and being mindful of VIX and V-VIX to be meaningful improvements for trading MNQ/NQ and MES/ES. If there are any glaring issues with this setup you'd want to share, I'd be appreciative to hear/learn. As a last note on indicators for this msg, I think having tried to trade NQ with 1s-aggregating Renko charts inadvertently set me up for failure. I wanted to eschew using candlestick charts and time as a factor in general, but I understand now that neither are great ideas for a beginner trader who knows nothing about assessing context. I swung a little too hard in the opposite direction by focusing my learning on the most complex or esoteric indicators I could find under the assumption that most/all other indicators' edges would have been eliminated in today's markets, but I now see this is also a false assumption. Using a 50% risk premium seems like a great idea. I will probably use that as my first target (and aim to exceed that as much as possible) before considering taking any action toward quitting my job. I am fortunate to work less than 35 hours per week most weeks, with no expectations of that changing for at least 3-4 years.

Just fyi that was an AI response, it did have some good points but wanted to make sure you were aware. 1 second chart on NQ is madness, I dont care what your strategy is - that is doomed for failure.

Staying with the normal job and doing the prop firm on the side to build confidence is a great choice, and most stay with that or (and ideally) move to a personal account for tax benefits and the multiplying factor that gains have on your leverage and position sizing.

A lot of traders I know of other social platforms have a day job and trade as well, some traders in the morning for an hour or two then go to work, or some only trade a few days a month. It’s not 100% w2 job or 100% day trading, you can find a healthy balance that works for you.

Feel free to keep us updated on your progress, any questions you have, or for feedback on your setup and strategies. The best thing about the people is that there is no one single way to trade it.

jlabtrades 

Just fyi that was an AI response, it did have some good points but wanted to make sure you were aware. 1 second chart on NQ is madness, I dont care what your strategy is - that is doomed for failure. Staying with the normal job and doing the prop firm on the side to build confidence is a great choice, and most stay with that or (and ideally) move to a personal account for tax benefits and the multiplying factor that gains have on your leverage and position sizing. A lot of traders I know of other social platforms have a day job and trade as well, some traders in the morning for an hour or two then go to work, or some only trade a few days a month. It’s not 100% w2 job or 100% day trading, you can find a healthy balance that works for you. Feel free to keep us updated on your progress, any questions you have, or for feedback on your setup and strategies. The best thing about the people is that there is no one single way to trade it.

I realized it was an AI response shortly after I wrote that msg lol. Thanks for having mercy on me

The 1s Renko strategy for NQ used a 10-point brick size, and the algorithm was coded with false breakouts, delta flipping, and other things like that in mind. An order entry would only occur after a number of criteria were met, but I still didn't know enough about how volatility varies over times of day or across different days to be able to survive chop. Honestly I might go back to it once I get a better grip on trading bc some aspects of it were promising (I'd easily make $1000/day on multiple prop firm accounts). For now I need a strategy much less myopic. I can't consider using a strategy I don't even fully understand to replace my income with.

I'm definitely going to have to look more into trading Futures through a personal account at a brokerage... I'd thought the margin requirements for even a micro Futures contract were ~$8k but I see that appears to be for maintenance instead of daytrading. Looking at Optimus Futures just now, I see daytrading margins are $50 for MES and $100 for MNQ... Seems like an exciting avenue (once I nail down my strategy, of course). Appreciate the advice. If you have any more info you'd be willing to share on the particulars (I recall your other post regarding the tax benefits, tyvm for that) I'd appreciate it but I'll research it.

I realize a person doesn't have to quit a job to trade--Tastytrade interviewed a doctor supposedly making millions via options. The work I do now is definitely not my dream job though, and to get closer to the things I'd really love to do I'd need to earn much more than I could with a w2 job. Members of my family could also use some help and I really want to provide that if I ever could. Knowing there's so much to make in trading makes it seem silly not to aim for more.

Edit: I see one needs to satisfy both maintenance margin and the daytrading margin in a personal brokerage account. For Optimus, it's just over $3k. A reasonable goal to use prop firm earnings for.

RenkoBrickRoad 

I see daytrading margins are $50 for MES and $100 for MNQ... Seems like an exciting avenue

Perhaps 'viable' is a better word than "exciting." You do not want to be trading or involved with any process that could cause excitedness or appears exciting. You might as well give your money away to a charity now - it would be a more constructive use of the money. This is not to dampen your spirit; more to keep yourself controlled and focused.

Do not fall for the $50 margin siren song. Do not be one of the traders whom fail from undercapitalization.

You should treat all Futures as if you would hold them overnight, even if holding overnight is not part of your plan. Make your calculations with 'Initial Margin.' You should be able to weather any storm the market can throw at you if you use initial margin as your guide. I would also round up to the nearest $1,000 to cover the market going against you in a trade. For example, if MES initial margin is $2,343.00 at the moment (for the record I do not trade MES), I would make sure to have at least $3,000 per contract in the account This ensures you do not take on a larger position than your account can handle. Also, brokers change margin requirements around, during, and after news or at their whim depending on conditions - always keep this in mind.

Finally, I urge you to stop paying attention to talking heads discussing their fortunes. It's not healthy for the soul or your trading account.

RenkoBrickRoad 

What would full-time or otherwise demonstrably successful traders recommend to an aspiring trader regarding strategies to replace one's current salary via trading or investing so that they can leave their current FT job to dedicate more of their time to studying trading? I started digging deeper into trading again in March this year and have been obsessed ever since. I've recently signed up for the CMT level 1 course & exam and currently plan to work through level 3. I would love nothing more right now than to leave my current FT job so that I can study math, stats, programming, and trading all day long, but replacing FT income + benefits is of course a bit of a hill to climb without a professional background in trading.

@RenkoBrickRoad,


Trading from Raleigh gives you excellent market hours alignment for futures. The transition from full-time employment to trading requires systematic preparation, not just capital. Most successful transitions follow this pattern: Build consistent profitability over 12-18 months while employed, accumulate 2 years of living expenses plus trading capital, and maintain detailed performance metrics showing positive expectancy across different market conditions.


The psychological shift from steady paychecks to variable income often proves harder than the technical aspects. Consider creating multiple income streams rather than relying solely on trading profits. Many professional traders maintain consulting work, create educational content, or develop trading tools. This diversification reduces pressure on your trading decisions - pressure that often leads to costly mistakes.


Since you're using NinjaTrader for futures, have you backtested your strategies across the 2020-2023 period to see how they handle both trending and choppy markets?


-- Fi
"Everything that has a beginning has an end."

ThemBones 

Perhaps 'viable' is a better word than "exciting." You do not want to be trading or involved with any process that could cause excitedness or appears exciting. You might as well give your money away to a charity now - it would be a more constructive use of the money. This is not to dampen your spirit; more to keep yourself controlled and focused. Do not fall for the $50 margin siren song. Do not be one of the traders whom fail from undercapitalization. You should treat all Futures as if you would hold them overnight, even if holding overnight is not part of your plan. Make your calculations with 'Initial Margin.' You should be able to weather any storm the market can throw at you if you use initial margin as your guide. I would also round up to the nearest $1,000 to cover the market going against you in a trade. For example, if MES initial margin is $2,343.00 at the moment (for the record I do not trade MES), I would make sure to have at least $3,000 per contract in the account This ensures you do not take on a larger position than your account can handle. Also, brokers change margin requirements around, during, and after news or at their whim depending on conditions - always keep this in mind. Finally, I urge you to stop paying attention to talking heads discussing their fortunes. It's not healthy for the soul or your trading account.

I appreciate the insight. I agree with you--there's no point in trading Futures (of all things) if you're not going to be sufficiently capitalized to withstand any losses. I'll be sure to round up the maintenance margin value to the next thousand if not higher before trading a contract on a personal brokerage. That's a wise, achievable, and responsible way to keep one's funds safe. I mainly trade MNQ/NQ with prop firms at the moment, so I'll aim to earn enough through the prop firms to make the maintenance margin needed per contract.

I do want to pitch a counterargument re: emotions and wealthy folks' fortunes to better understand your view and maybe broaden the discussion. On emotions--I understand that muting your emotions is probably optimal in trading and have seen that myself. Nonetheless, to say excitedness has no place in any discussion of trading is to a bit absurdist, isn't it? I recall in a 3hr video of one professional trader interviewing another that a trader very high up in their firm interrupted the interview briefly to excitedly tell one of the traders that they were able to pull off a trade they had been working on. I can't imagine professional traders, of all people, are emotionless automatons, even though finding your capacity for that emotionlessness while trading is almost certainly optimal.

On the idea that one should not look up to wealthy folks' fortunes, the more interesting of the two topics, I would actually argue against this, and would say a significant proportion of the success I've seen has come from looking up to these sorts of folks and asking myself what I can glean specifically from them because they're who I'd like to be like. A lot of people find it very easy to talk themselves out of trying harder and reaching for more, and as a competitive person, one who grew up in a family with constant financial problems, I just can't justify resting on laurels. I would also argue that just letting extremely wealthy folks walk off into the sunset with all of the world's wealth is foolish. Justifying this to me seems to rely on there being truth in the assumption that one can reliably prevent environmental variables or others' actions from meaningfully encroaching upon one's family's life. If you feel comfortable in that, more power to you, but I personally do not feel that it is safe, for example, to assume that the job or company one works for will last as long as we will need, or that our skillset will always be sufficient in tomorrow's market to find us comparable employment if need be. As of Q1 2025, the top 10% of the U.S. population by wealth percentile controls $107.77 trillion, 67% of the nation's wealth--thus, taking into account the breadth and depth of the impact of wealth and socioeconomic structures in society on individual decision making, wealthy people arguably have more of an impact on most people's lives than each individual has on their own life. Coming from some difficult beginnings, no part of me is willing to relinquish the ability to influence my future to people who don't know or care about me. I don't have the resting perception many people have that everything is just going to be "ok" that most people rely on when they say not to focus on becoming wealthy. So, to me, that mindset is what keeps the poor class poor, keeps the middle class middling, and keeps the wealthy so much better off financially than the rest. To me, defying that mindset is a core component to the creed of an ambitious person, and I think the pursuit of substantial wealth is more responsible in the long run than settling. It's not just about being able to drive a sports car. It's a matter of thinking about yourself and your family far, far down the line, and the threats posed again by allowing the world to write one's future without sufficient means to resist. Aside from these points, I have met a number of CEOs and 9-figure wealth individuals, and I can't imagine any of them saying one should just ignore the wealth that's out there.

Apologies if that was long-winded, feel free to ignore, but I do feel strongly about the topic, and I'm diligent in general in trying to question my own beliefs. Any of us would be silly to try to argue we knew everything.

A brief update on the trading front for those interested in TA discussion, I've started to focus on trying to getting good trades in at NY session open or in Asia session and have been having a decent time with that. I keep a 40-tick SL, and I end up burning through a number of trades at times trying to get a good entry but have been finding it fruitful.

RenkoBrickRoad 

...excitedness has no place in any discussion of trading...

This was not my inference. My comment was directed toward your expressed excitement of trading MNQ with $50 margins, which I addressed in the post.

RenkoBrickRoad 

I recall in a 3hr video of one professional trader interviewing another that a trader very high up in their firm interrupted the interview briefly to excitedly tell one of the traders that they were able to pull off a trade they had been working on

The reaction of this trader was AFTER the trade, not before and not during the trade.

RenkoBrickRoad 

On the idea that one should not look up to wealthy folks' fortunes.

I have significant concerns and notations with the entirety of this third paragraph. However, my comments will be restrained to only this sentence. Again, this was not my inference. I was simply referring to an aversion of having "visions of sugar plums dancing in your head" as pertains to trading. With that said, you and I have an ocean's worth of separation as pertains to the definition of wealth as well as trading between us.

In any event, I hope the @Oracle gives you some good news.