Welcome to NexusFi: the best trading community on the planet, with over 150,000 members Sign Up Now for Free
Genuine reviews from real traders, not fake reviews from stealth vendors
Quality education from leading professional traders
We are a friendly, helpful, and positive community
We do not tolerate rude behavior, trolling, or vendors advertising in posts
We are here to help, just let us know what you need
You'll need to register in order to view the content of the threads and start contributing to our community. It's free for basic access, or support us by becoming an Elite Member -- see if you qualify for a discount below.
-- Big Mike, Site Administrator
(If you already have an account, login at the top of the page)
Josh I see you are trading the HSI and not the MHI.
What intraday margin are AMP applying to your HSI trades?
I see AMP quote $4,000 but that does not seem logical. The MHI is only $500 and the point value multiplier is 5x so I would have thought the HSI should be only $2,500.
The HHI vs MCH is more in-line but actually goes the other way. Margins of $2,000 and $500 respectively with a point value multiplier of 5x as well.
A $4,000 margin means you use up $8,000 of account balance just placing one contract trade with an OCO profit & stop targets. Due to an OCO order type using 2 lots of margin.
I actively trade both Asian and US session. I only trade ES/NQ for now in 3 separate accounts (myself, spouse and a prop firm). There are eight different setups ranging from scalping, day and swing trading that I execute manually everyday. This is the reason why I stick to one instrument to trade since my mind is so occupied each day to figure out which and which setup to trade and whether or not it's a fake setup to trap me in. There are specific rules that I apply to identify fake setup so I can back away.
In Asian session, I've been trading for years and I realize that ES/NQ becomes active by 3am-3pm US central time. I noticed quite often that ES/NQ tends to reverse its intraday direction ~3am or take a pause/consolidation ~6am before resuming its direction.
I don't mind to share live calls for day/swing setups that might last for hour to few hours with like minded traders who work extremely hard like me and is making consistent profits.
Hey steve -- actually I have not noticed but yes it's $4K. When it's slow I will at times use the big contract but I am also happy to trade the mini, as I can be more granular with entries and exits by putting on multiples. I'm still not completely comfortable with HSI, so I am very conservative with trading it so far.
But you are correct, the margin doesn't make sense, given the margin requirement for the mini. I will ask them about this.
Actually the OCO order should not represent an additional margin requirement with an open position, as it represents an order to close. For example, a $500 margin on an open contract is required, and adding a bracket order to close does not add any margin. However, with no position on, there is a $1000 requirement for the bracket order since they are 2 orders to open. At least, that's what I'm showing here.
I was referring to say a limit order to go long that has an associated profit target order and stop loss order as an OCO as the theory is either the profit order or the stop loss order are hit and then the other is cancelled. This utilises 2 lots of margin.
On the other hand a limit order to go long that only has an associated stop loss order (but no profit target order) requires only 1 lot of margin.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr, Danish Physicist
In order to trade anything these days, you really have to think like an algo, because trading is predominantly algo-driven today. Even the "real" money being invested is given to an algo to execute the order. Hell, even retail brokers offer built-in algo execution (see IB). I'd say it's especially true of a market like HSI. You simply cannot fade the order flow, and I'd wonder how anyone can actually trade it without looking at a ladder, footprint, or something else to really see what's driving it.
I listened to an audio of Marty Schwartz some time ago, and he talked about how in the pit days, there was a physical stack of sell orders, and that traders would run those orders (even if they weren't supposed to know about them :-o as they were client orders) for liquidity. Well, the same thing happens today obviously. Except that the algos don't know where the stops are -- they don't get tired, they don't feel sorry for you, they just follow the program, which is to probe, probe, probe, over, and over, and over, until they find the liquidity. It's the source of the one-directional moves we see in all markets, including markets like the HSI, which just now rallied 150 points off new lows with a 15-20 tick max pullback.
But there's an upside to this challenging market. If you can identify when the order flow has really turned, and I mean turned so that the algos are clearly and unmistakably activated in one direction (usually up these days), you don't have to worry about catching the turn too precisely. In fact, I got in after 80 points, and still caught 60. Just get in, preferably on a little retracement if you can manage. They are working for you now. Their behavior, which would make you literally want to slam your head into a wall, now gives you a relatively easy trade. No, it's not always easy, but the key IMO is to let the trade come to you, and look for what is unmistakably a bid-up algo, and go with it.
I find that using delta gives a nice visual to what I see happening in the ladder. In order for this bid-up to work, it really requires positive delta -- if delta's not too positive, it means that there aren't enough traders covering, and covering is what makes it work, ultimately.
I'm quite sure this is nothing new to you guys, but I wanted to express it, having seen it multiple times in multiple markets today, and particularly in the HSI.
I somehow agree with you that we have to think like an algo in recent years in order to trade well. I don't use order flow, but I've developed a mechanism in my swing trading system which took years to bullet proof it. Each time when my swing system tells me that price action is strong in one direction, I either follow it to trade or skip it if I miss the entry point. If I take a trade against price action during such momentum periods, I can guarantee myself 99% of the time that the outcome of that trade is a disaster.
It's interesting because I had felt that way about the HSI. That action must be in the ETH of the HHI correct? usually in the RTH I find more liquidity per a level than the HSI, but I am by no means an expert on these products, only been eyeballing for a few months.
The scariest thing I had seen is local/industry related news events, someone over in that area gets that news WAY before we do, I'm not talking 2-3 secs...
Great post! In a product like ES I would regularly look for delta divergence but have struggled to see similar patterns in the HSI/HHI, I would be keen to know more about how you look at it if you can spare a screenshot sometime.
Hi, can you note 1-2 examples of a date & time where the market volatility increased before the 'official' newswire? I assume you're not referring to the HK protests per se.