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Prop firm fraud in Futures? (on the back of My Forex Fund scam/CFTC ruling)
Its simple, the risk that comes with doing business is not worth the legal risk. Even if Apex and others showed their sources of revenue (hey look we barley make anything from signups, its all from the copy trading we do!), there is now the precedent that if you take in subscription feeds for a trading opportunity and also payout user based on performance, then theres also the risk you are label as a ponzi scheme.
It doesn't mean deel did a deep investigation of all these firms and said "they're all ponzis! we can work with them!"
I agree, that is my interpretation of this Deel situation. Deel and their lawyers reviewed this court case (reading the Complaint and Statutory Restraining Order) and made the decision to protect themselves.
Deel did it in an interesting way, by updating their Terms of Service - Prohibited Activity List. To me that looks like a lawyer's solution.
The next lower item on the Prohibited Activity List is also quite interesting:
"Activities violating any law, statute, ordinance or regulation."
I agree, that is the violation: allowing US/canadian citizens to use CFDs.... but a part from that, I don't agree that MFF business model is evil for the traders. It actually allows the traders to save a lot of money until they learn their skills.
If you have an edge, you have it with futures and and also with CFDs, spreads are widers but then you work on an edge that doesn't depend so much on tight spreads.
So... What this is saying is since these forex firms were not trading funded accounts on real money, there was basically a conflict of interest, and it was in their best interest to manipulate fills to cause people to stop out...
This is 100% possible on futures too since every prop firm (that I know of) uses paper accounts
I read it as since they were real trades, they are in trouble since they aren’t a registered broker. Also they were messing with fills and spreads on these real trades.
this particular case has less to do with trading accounts with real money or not, and more are the trades real. They also abused their powers of controlling the fills as counterparty to the trades to the deficit of the customers.
Just because a futures prop firm has you on a paper / sim account, it doesn’t guarantee they can manipulate the fills. If a prop firm is on a larger and more reputable broker (Tradovate / ninja) then I dont think they have access to manipulate individual orders at all (just your account size, drawdown, and on hand cash amount)
If you say so - but I'm slightly surprised you don't know of Topstep, Earn2Trade and TradeDay, to name but three well known ones who (or "whose funding arms") also fund real (easily verifiable) accounts.
Just wanted to chime in on the topic of fills in future's funding firms. I'm pretty sure I have evidence of Apex giving awful fills. Blows my mind that nobody has noticed yet. See the post I made in my journal below:
Is queue position actually something reported by Rithmic?
For example for real brokerage accounts CME has this, which provides the ability to view individual queue position, full depth of book and the size of individual orders at each price level: https://www.cmegroup.com/education/market-by-order-mbo.html
Apex Rithmic doesn't even come with level 2 data, so I suspect the DOM you're using is approximating queue position with whatever limited data it has, making it look like it's resetting.
I was very curious about your journal post because I also trade with Apex, and ran the following tests:
1. Connected to my NT Brokerage account (similar to your Edge Clear). I have level 2 data subscribed, and the DOM shows APQ (queue position)
2. Connected to my Apex Rithmic account, Apex doesn't include level 2 data, so the DOM doesn't even show a value for queue position
So I suspect queue position just isn't something provided by Rithmic, so your DOM (was that jigsaw?) is incorrectly showing it. I think NinjaTrader does it correctly where it leaves the APQ blank when the data is wrong.
Apex's Rithmic feed does come with Level 2 data. On the left is the /ZB order book with **my broker. On the right is **Apex, the orders at all levels and MBO info are identical. If Apex didn't have Level 2, I'd only see the bid & offer.
Since Apex uses a simulated data feed, there must be a method it uses to determine what your position in the queue is. I would be very interested in knowing what it is, because I'm fairly sure I've never been filled without the level being given up. I don't really want to give them any more of my money, but I can buy another eval and compare /ZN with my broker vs. Apex.
